Hey Jason, thanks, I checked out the link and then went back to my code and there werent any spaces. However I tried something else. I had 4 code blocked together down the page and decided to move them to the top of the page - 2 code blocks were automated by ecart and the other 2 were session variables I created (my session variables were before the ecart code blocks) I uploaded did the exact same tests as before and this time success the problem is gone :) but I would like to find out more why in the thread you gave me that spaces would also cause this error - and why did my method fix the problem (unless somehow by me moving the code blocks to the top i somehow had space or line breaks before and so now i dont. its all very confusing but interesting :)