ok sorry forgot to mention that the code i supplied earlier on "first page" load it will display all products...sorry thats how i coded it originally..i will need to revisit the code to alter that for you...also if you create a "show if recordset is not empty" then it wont show that particular manufacturer in the drop down list so in other words it wouldnt allow you to have a blank page since there be no option in the drop down.
chris