by the way, ray
"I appreciate the suggestion... not sure how much easier it would be though"
it would be easy to copy paste the servervalidations and validations showif as they are not set by inserting the new form element. so it would be very nice too see this change coming. as you can assume i am not the greatest php guru, that is why i spend money for the solution pack. but it seems not so easy like i thought it would be. but i know you're the big specialist and you'll help me out of trouble :)