NOT COOL, Webassist!

[meegan76727]

NOT COOL

I just bought the CSS Sculptor 2.0 extension two months ago and you're coming out with a new version that I have to pay 50 BUCKS for???? NOT COOL.

I hope you'll do the right thing and provide the newer version to the recent purchasers of this extension.

Anyone else peeved?

Meegan

[SOJO web]

No... why be peeved? Because they are a company doing what they are supposed to do by constantly evolving and making better products?

Would you rather that WebAssist stop making a particular extension better every time someone buys one?

I am sorry, but that makes no sense at all. You still are getting the very product you purchased... it's not as if they are taking away your license for what you did pay for.

I also think this is exactly why they started the subscription service because then if you subscribe, you'll always get the latest product no matter what.

You buy a product because it can help you get a job done. I think that is still the case with the product you purchased. It's not much different than a couple years back when I purchased my iMac only to have Apple, a week later, introduce the new iMac with Leopard and new software. Should I hate Apple for evolving and releasing a better product line each year.

Try to look at it more positively... the good news is that WebAssist continues to innovate on behalf of its users' needs.

[amyegc-a319132]

I agree with Meegan at least to some degree. Many software companies offer free upgrades if you buy a previous version close to the release date for the new software. I upgraded about a month ago and would not have if I had any idea 3.0 would be coming out one month later. I actually asked for a refund within the 15 day period after purchase because it didn't seem worth the expense. I wanted to go back to version 1. It's my own fault for not following up, but no one from Webassist bothered to get back to me. I would not feel this way if Webassist had provided updates about when 3.0 would be released. Look at the thread asking for suggestions about version 3.0. There's no indication about when it would be released. I'm not interested in a subscription. I want one piece of Webassist software. Technically I got what I paid for and technically Webassist doesn't owe me anything more but it does leave a bad taste.

[Anna Robinson]

Our policy is to upgrade customers to newly released versions if they have purchased an older version within 30 days of the new version coming out. We do this automatically in the download center so that you don't need to call in to take advantage of this.

We will continue to come out with new versions of our products; in fact, we are trying to get on a quicker cycle for this. Like a lot of software companies though, it is not our policy to publicize release dates for our product line. While some software companies leak this type of information, release dates are often estimated, or move entirely, and moving a release date can be every bit as unpopular as not offering it in the first place.

As SOJO mentions above, our subscription program is a great alternative if you do not want to pay upgrade costs after the 30-day mark.

[amyegc-a319132]

Is it also your policy to ignore people who ask for a refund within the 15 day trial period which you did to me? I purchased in on August 2nd. My request for a refund was ignored. No I didn't follow up. Yes I just expected Webassist to do what they say they'll do. Now I have software that wasn't much value to me beyond version 1 and I'm 7 days too late to get an upgrade to version 3.

[Ray Borduin]

We honor any requests in the first 15 days. How did you make your request? If you sent an email we should have history of it and will still honor the refund. Please call to investigate further. Make sure to look up the date and time when the email was sent and we should be able to look it up and verify.

[amyegc-a319132]

Ray,
I checked my email and I sent it on August 2nd, I believe one day after I bought version 2. Although I responded with the email that said "do not reply" in the address I did not send it to the "do not reply" address. I sent it to sales@webassist.com and included the rest of the email so they had all the info. I can forward the sent email to you if you wish. Thanks.

[Ray Borduin]

Just call sales directly and work with them and they will work with you.

[Scott Keller]

Hi, I am in a similar situation, but I feel much worse. I am an individual who is trying to get into web design on my own time (away from work). I purchased an Adobe Suite and then saw Web Assist in August and thought this was a very good idea. So, I paid about $667 for a Suite and several other extensions on August 12, 2009.

Then, just after 15 days (September 1), you came out with the library which gives access to all of your products, including updates! I would like to convert my substantial purchase (I haven't had a chance to start using it until last night, which is when I saw the library availability, etc.) into a library subscription. I am not asking for any money back, but with what I paid, it would roughly pay for the $79 activation fee and 3 years at $200 apiece (with a small, $13 price break for paying 3 years upfront).

Otherwise, I would be in the same position of having to pay almost 3 more months of full access to all products and upgrades to get an upgrade to one extension (CSS Sculptor) that will come out, apparently, just after the 30 day free upgrade window you mentioned. That's just one upgrade, but think about all the upgrades you will offer in the next three years, let alone that I don't even have access to many of your extensions.

I am not a corporation, I am an individual just trying to retrain into a different job so that I can become self-employed. I understand you all need to make a living, too, but I think my proposal is reasonable. All I see that you officially offer is to get a discount of $30 more dollars off the library activation fee, which is hardly a just compensation to someone who, in good faith, plunked down so much money less than a month earlier.

Please help! Thanks for your consideration. I am feeling really crestfallen at the moment.

[Ray Borduin]

Contact sales, they will work with you.

[Scott Keller]

Below is the email I received from Sales. She states that this is "well past the 15 day refund period", but I'm not asking for a refund, I'm asking for a transfer. I don't want a penny back, I just don't want to have paid close to $700, when if I would have waited 15 days, I would have been able to pay $19.95 per month for more software and automatic updates. I hope someone there can see my point. I just happened to make a major purchase of your software at the wrong time by a few days, and NOTHING can be done??? I would hope the president of your company could see the validity of my point. Again, I am buying this as an individual who won't even be making money off of it for probably the first year or so.

Anyway, here is the email I got when I contacted sales:
_________________________

Hi Scott,

Unfortunately because you made your purchases on 8/11/09, you are well past the 15 day refund period. The only thing we can offer you is to waive the activation fee if you would like to enroll in the program.


Kind Regards,

Laura Savelli
Sales Representative
800.886.0130 x136
www.webassist.com
_________________________

I wrote back an email to Laura which ask her to escalate this matter. The offer she made ($79 dollars off of activation, since if I ordered the plan, I could have gotten it for that), is tantamount to throwing nearly $600 in the toilet because I ordered your software at precisely the worst time that I could have (and was cajoled into it with the 20% off offer that ended the next day). In fact, it wasn't until yesterday that I got a chance to start using the software. Check my activation history.

I feel like my offer is perfectly reasonable. I would be willing to accept losing a month of the subscription, since I bought the software a month ago today. As a VP in the company, I trust that you want to be fair to your customers and have them work with you to get other customers, which I would certainly do. I am looking for a win-win, but am being offered a win-lose, paying fully for a large portion of the software you offer, then a month later paying fully for a subscription to that same software that I bought only a month earlier. HELP!

Thanks for anything you can do.

Scott

[meegan76727]

That's your lame excuse that you don't want to publicize your release dates?

Why not just offer pre-ordering (like all the other legitimate software companies) when you know you're releasing a newer version?

I am guessing this is a tactic on your part. So far you have one guy suggesting the subscription purchase. Whatever.

No more with you guys. And will encourage others as well. There are way too many other companies with stellar cs history to work with. Paying a 50.00 upgrade for something I purchased two months ago?? Really???

No

[Brad Lawryk]

I do agree with the original poster somewhat ... I had just recently purchased my Sculptor as well. But my issue is the upgrade really worth $50 for a color picker?

I can see no free upgrades for major version releases ... we don't get free upgrades on Dreamweaver either. But that's on major version upgrades. In my opinion, a color picker, doesn't warrant a major version change. Any other changes were simply performance based which fixed issues/bugs in the current version. Minor version changes.

So my question now is that since I do not want to pay $50 for a color picker, how long will version 2 still be supported?

[Brad Lawryk]

And I agree with Scott that getting the subscription for those of us that own/paid for all or most of the products is really not a good deal. Actually a really bad deal. For all we know there could be no new products or versions in the next year. Thus paying double for what we already own.

[Ray Borduin]

We will continue supporting version 2 until the next version of Dreamweaver. So it won't be directly supported for CS5.

[SOJO web]

I do agree with the original poster somewhat ... I had just recently purchased my Sculptor as well. But my issue is the upgrade really worth $50 for a color picker?

I can see no free upgrades for major version releases ... we don't get free upgrades on Dreamweaver either. But that's on major version upgrades. In my opinion, a color picker, doesn't warrant a major version change. Any other changes were simply performance based which fixed issues/bugs in the current version. Minor version changes.

So my question now is that since I do not want to pay $50 for a color picker, how long will version 2 still be supported?

Brad, there actually is quite a bit more than just a color picker... such as the ability to add spry and div elements in an easier and quicker fashion. The new version, at least in my opinion, makes it easier to actually design sites right in the sculptor - whereas before - I relied mostly on my own hand coding.

[Brad Lawryk]

@Brian,

Whats so hard about the Spry components that are in DW already? What makes the Sculptor one easier? An extension to do what DW already does?

I like using the DW Spry stuff and use them on most sites. See no need for an extension that does the same thing. But here is your chance to sell me on it and make WebAssist another $50. ;-)

[Jason Byrnes]

CSS Sculptor 3 gives the ability to add the spry components directly to your CSS Sculptor layout.

There is also the ability to style the Spry elements within the CSS Sculptor interface. You can change the background color of the spry Tabed panel, or apply a background image.

Once you have created your layout with the spry elements, it can be saved as a Preset in CSS Sculptor to be used again on another site or used as a building block.

With the Color Picker, you can easily use the color scheme you are using on the rest of page in your spry elements.

[SOJO web]

@Brian,

Whats so hard about the Spry components that are in DW already? What makes the Sculptor one easier? An extension to do what DW already does?

I like using the DW Spry stuff and use them on most sites. See no need for an extension that does the same thing. But here is your chance to sell me on it and make WebAssist another $50. ;-)

Brad,

I won't try to sell you on anything :)!

I don't work for WebAssist, I am a community expert here because I have used their products a great deal to make what, I feel (at least), are some pretty cool sites and applications.

I am merely trying to be helpful and point out benefits that may help you achieve your goals.

So, you could say I am a WebAssist evangelist - but only because I have had great success with their products and have mixed in my ability to code by hand to create a lot of cool things. Naturally, I want the company to do well so they continue to produce even better and more useful products in the future.

Best regards,

Brian

[Scott Keller]

Contact sales, they will work with you.

Ray,

I wrote to sales a second time. Thinking that SOMEONE there would see that paying $667 and then, one month later being told that ALL WebAssist sales can do for me is offer me $79 off and then be an equal customer with people who paid NOTHING was nuts, I asked for Laura to get with her supervisor.

Here is the response I got:

"I just spoke with my Manager, the V.P. of Sales, and unfortunately the decision remains the same. The only thing that we can offer you is to waive the activation fee."

I have to say, I have NEVER FELT MORE RIPPED OFF, EVER, than I feel right now.

Ray, you are a VP, can you talk to somebody? I really think your products are a good idea and I would like to work with your company, but I feel that your company needs to think long and hard about your sales policies.

Again, I just paid 2/3 of $1000 just over 1 month ago. NOW, you will put out a new version of CSS Sculptor and will charge me an ADDTIONAL $50???? When, if I would have waited 2 weeks to purchase, I would have paid $80 and then $20 per month and would have gotten a FREE upgrade...not to mention I would have access to more products than the poor schmuck who spent all that money in good faith? Oh, wait, that poor schmuck is ME.

Please, Ray, in the name of decency as a VP (even if you're not in sales), help me. I'm not a corporation with unlimited funds, I'm an individual trying to start in business in the next year or two.

Thanks,

Scott

[Ray Borduin]

We aren't dropping the monthly charge for anyone. They offered to waive the startup fee, which means you would get to join the subscription program and get the first month for $1. If that isn't appealing to you, then the subscription program isn't appealing to you and you can continue to purchase and own extensions as you do now.

You are getting the same deal as everyone else, and unfortunately even I can't help you get more than that.

[Scott Keller]

We aren't dropping the monthly charge for anyone. They offered to waive the startup fee, which means you would get to join the subscription program and get the first month for $1. If that isn't appealing to you, then the subscription program isn't appealing to you and you can continue to purchase and own extensions as you do now.

You are getting the same deal as everyone else, and unfortunately even I can't help you get more than that.

Mr Borduin,

I paid $667 now a month and a week ago (after many days of interaction here).

As an in your face example of how I got hosed, if I want to get a version of CSS Sculptor that someone paying $20 a month without having paid anything but a $79 subscription startup, I will have to pay $50 after having paid $667 a month and a week before, because it was a few days over a month that you released this upgrade??? And that's just for one extension of the many that I purchased.

To be put on equal footing with people who didn't support you when you didn't offer a subscription, you are asking me to flush about $600 of my hard earned money down the drain for a little over two weeks of use.

All I was asking for was to convert to the subscription plan that got offered for the first time less than 3 weeks after I dropped all that cash. You say "the subscription plan is not for me". That's bunk. It's throwing away $600 that's not for me.

I have tried to remain reasonable in the hopes that someone at your company would see that I got caught in a perfect storm of bad timing and your inflexible policies, goaded on my a marketing claim that I would not be able to save %20 after that date, but with no clue that you would be offering a subscription plan a little over 15 days (the inflexible no refund time period) later. But noone there seems willing to admit that the policy is completely unreasonable in this case.

I have never felt so completely ripped off in my 48 years of existence. Because I can't get satisfaction from this company, you have turned me into an enemy instead of a friend. I will be badmouthing your company at every opportunity for the rest of my life. Hopefully, I will cost you much more than the amount you have cost me. I'm sorry it has come to this, but I'm much more sorry that I spent my hard earned money on products from people who don't value their customers.

Look for posts denigrating your company all over the Internet and don't even think about suing for libel, because the truth is a valid defense in those cases.

Yours truly,

Scott

[Ray Borduin]

I appreciate your candid feedback. I'm sure if you are honest in your posts people can come to thier own conclusions. I am not ashamed of our policies. Hopefully there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Maybe sign up for our affiliate program. As long as you are posting about us all over the internet you might as well get something for the sales it generates.

I'll make sure to look for your posts and respond to them when appropriate. Our lawyers would only come after you if you were inaccurate or misleading in your posts. You can go crazy posting "Webassist offers such a great deal now, that I feel buyers remorse for purchasing before the current offer was available and now they won't refund my purchase I made more than 30 days ago" (make sure to include a URL it will help our search engine rankings).

[Office Guy-172461]

Thanks Ray for brightening my day. :)

If some of your customers would put as much effort into web design as they do trying to convince you of how special they are, we would see some pretty spectacular web sites.

[Brad Lawryk]

I appreciate your candid feedback. I'm sure if you are honest in your posts people can come to thier own conclusions. I am not ashamed of our policies. Hopefully there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Maybe sign up for our affiliate program. As long as you are posting about us all over the internet you might as well get something for the sales it generates.

I'll make sure to look for your posts and respond to them when appropriate. Our lawyers would only come after you if you were inaccurate or misleading in your posts. You can go crazy posting "Webassist offers such a great deal now, that I feel buyers remorse for purchasing before the current offer was available and now they won't refund my purchase I made more than 30 days ago" (make sure to include a URL it will help our search engine rankings).

While I may not agree with all that WebAssist does .... this post was priceless! Actually, I'm still laughing as I type this. Full marks to Ray on this one - sorry Scott.

[Lon Winters]

Scott, you're not helping your case much by threatening the company.

I've seen this discussion time and time again in a variety of forums and with a variety of products. While every companies upgrade policy is not exactly like another's, they do seem to follow similar methods. Look at the iPhone forums if you want a good example, and the people upset over there because they have to wait to get the new 3GS don't really have a legitate complaint.

Still, I wonder how much thought went into this particular program and if various scenarios such as yours, Scott, were taken into account. First, we as forum participants have to take you at your word that you spent as much as you say and when it occured. It is possible that you're embellishing a bit to make your case. At any rate, taking you at your word, I would still have to agree that time limits imposed by Webassist are unusally severe resulting in you not getting what you paid for.

While the terms of the purchase are clear at the time of the purchase, it isn't fair. When I saw the new subscription plan, my first thought was "What about the money I already spent?". But clearly in my case, it was money well spent and I got my value from it and then some, because my purchases were no where near as recent as yours.

The most fair implementation of a new upgrade or program that I've seen was at Digidesign. They announce a major upgrade at least 3 months in advance, usually, and invlite anyone to purcahse to current version with a free upgrade. The WA subscription program is a little more involved than that, but I do think they could offer you something for the purcahse you made.

That's my opinion as it's their right to set and enforce their policies as they see fit.

[bundle]

Like Meegan, I had WebAssist rub me the wrong way. I bought PowerStore $299.99 on 06/30/2009. Then on 7/23/09 a special price of $99.99 was offered for PowerStore to Super Suite owners (which I am). I wrote to the sales department and was told I was screwed out of $200 because I bought their product early, even though a month hadn't gone by. Apparently we should all wait indefinitely in the hopes that a discount will be offered someday.

This reminds me of the iPhone fiasco where loyal customers ended up paying more because they didn't wait a month for the price to go down. Why would a company want to make early purchasers feel bad? I lost $200 because, as a loyal, long-term customer, I was interested in buying a new product. At least Apple recognized their mistake and made refunds.

Be warned, buying from WebAssist is a pricing crap shoot.

[Ray Borduin]

Not buying is a crap shoot as well. People are so up-in-arms about us dropping our prices we may need to raise them to satisfy those people, because with prices this low we certainly can't afford to start giving refunds on top.

[peter.england259893]

An interesting thread this one.

I've a number of WebAssit products going back to Cookies in 2006. The earlier one's are good; the latter not quite so hot.

CSS Sculptor is okay but such things as scrolling layers seem impossible, one has to revert to hand coding. If v3.0 is just a color dropper and a bit of Spry integration then Korax Color Dropper is free and DW is going to be better at the Spry so why go another 50 USD? I bought Menu and Sculptor on the 22nd August and while I can live with Sculptor as-is I've a much bigger problem with the Menu builder and will have to post in that thread.

But my main grief with WA is that they have decided to go down the PHP only route. The effect of that is that I shall not be purchasing any further extensions from them going instead to DMZ Zone whose product tends to work more smoothly and across all platforms.

peter e

[Office Guy-172461]

I assign a PIB (pain-in-butt) charge to clients that use more than the normal amount of support time over non-issues. Maybe you could add an insult charge to those that break forum rules. The more they complain about prices, the closer to they get to the price they paid months ago. :)

[Ray Borduin]

So... a little irony here....

I decided to go back and check some dates to see if Scott was in fact embelishing his dates.... and the reverse is true.

His suite purchase was actually less than a month before we announced the library, which means Scott, you can get a full refund of the Essential Suite part of your purchase: $480 if you sign up for the library annual subscription.

Basically you can return the essential suite if you sign up for the library instead. That means you can get the library with one full year of updates and $200 cash back. You just have to contact sales and tell them that you actually purchased less than 30 days before the library was released.

Your eariler posts implied you were outside of the policy time period, when in fact you are inside of it.

[Scott Keller]

So... a little irony here....

I decided to go back and check some dates to see if Scott was in fact embelishing his dates.... and the reverse is true.

His suite purchase was actually less than a month before we announced the library, which means Scott, you can get a full refund of the Essential Suite part of your purchase: $480 if you sign up for the library annual subscription.

Basically you can return the essential suite if you sign up for the library instead. That means you can get the library with one full year of updates and $200 cash back. You just have to contact sales and tell them that you actually purchased less than 30 days before the library was released.

Your eariler posts implied you were outside of the policy time period, when in fact you are inside of it.

Ray,

I had really given up hope. I couldn't understand why nobody was sympathetic to my plight. Like I said, I thought you all have some worthwhile products and I really wanted to work together, but I felt really ripped off. When I contacted sales before, they said I couldn't do it. I will write them again and reference you, I hope you don't mind. I'd like to convert the account as soon as possible and put this mini-nightmare behind me!

I will still lose a little less than $200 for the other products, but that's not nearly so bad. For those posters who thought I was being a cry baby, I hope you don't end up in the same situation. I am an honest person and really don't like it when I perceive injustice. I didn't expect to get back my full purchase price, but getting the $480 to put towards a subscription will be just what I was looking for.

Scott

[bundle]

I'm not sure why people like "office172461" think customer complaints are so awful. The customer is what supports the life of the business. Their feedback is integral to growth, if one can really listen to what's being expressed rather than just hearing it as whining.

I don't think my issue with losing $200 because I bought a product less than a month earlier is irrelevant or a pain-in-the-butt that shouldn't be mentioned in a community forum. It was national news when the same thing happened with Apple.

"Ray Borduin," the way I see it, no one expects a business to not be profitable. But lowering prices on products can actually be profitable when it's used to encourage loyal, targeted customers to return again and again and buy more. In the long term, that good relationship will yield more profit through trust and respect, not to mention the reward of their recommendations to industry colleagues. If someone is complaining to the company it most likely means they will eventually complain to colleagues if the dissatisfaction continues. In the end, I would guess the profit loss would be much, much greater overall than just concerns one product's lowered price.

WebAssist offers great products...products that are targeted to specific professionals. Keeping them happy is going to do more than attempting to replace them. Just my opinion obviously.

To date, I have spent $1,244.88 with WebAssist. Is offering $200 that was offered to others as a promotion really such a big deal that it's going to damage the company?

[Ray Borduin]

We use profits to help our customers, and put them right back into support, the development of updates, new versions, and the next idea. We really only charge as much as we absolutely need to, so going lower is often not possible.

We carefully plan our policies to be fair and reasonable, and when people complain, we might change them moving forward, but in the meantime we have to stick to the policies we used to determine our pricing in the first place. We can't afford to give money back, more than we already do with our current methodology, because we have spent our previous profit developing the new version and making updates to the old version already. Offering further rebates or refunds would mean taking a hit to some other part of the business, and in the long term would mean fewer, less robust, or worse support moving forward.

Feedback, even negative, is always listened to, and appreciated.

[bundle]

Thank you for your response. There's always two sides to things, right? I definitely don't want WebAssist to be struggling or ever have to close its doors. You provide products that are extremely helpful; ones that do what no other product does. I remember thinking, before I discovered you, that it was so weird there weren't applications that help Designers bridge the confusing divide to coding. The way I saw it, web design consistently reuses the same parts - forms, buttons, menus, layout, etc - so why aren't these made into modules that can be "plugged in" as needed? Then, lo and behold, I was lucky enough to stumble across WebAssist. Really...no one offers what you do. So I hope you continue to do what your name says, "assist," far into the future.

Just out of curiosity, why did you pay for a complete redesign of your website if money is so tight? I never saw anything wrong with the original version. Redesign is a luxury not a necessity. Client satisfaction is much more profitable.

[Office Guy-172461]

I'm not sure why people like "office172461" think customer complaints are so awful. The customer is what supports the life of the business. Their feedback is integral to growth, if one can really listen to what's being expressed rather than just hearing it as whining.?

I agree that complaints are good when they are pointing out flaws. The whining I refer to is the endless bickering that happens every time WebAssist changes anything with pricing. There are always going to be people that fall on the wrong side of a date cutoff - that's life. The only fair thing to do is establish a cutoff and stick with it.

I also have paid for almost all of the extensions, but I don't see how offering a leasing option takes anything away from what I already have.

I have always found WebAssist to be more than willing to work with people that are reasonable. It's good to ask but it's also good to accept the answer and move on.

[bundle]

Truth be told, I didn't come to the forum with any intention of all of this. I had written the sales department and I had moved on. I came to the forum looking around for Snow Leopard comments and found this thread out of curiosity because it was at the top of the list. So I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents in case other people were having similar experiences. What's so hard with the web is that the tone of a message can't be communicated, so it can often sound annoying unintentionally. But of course sometimes it is intentional too, and then it's often just an outlet for people to vent before they move on.

I guess that in a perfect world it would have been nice as consistent customer to be given more of a heads up about a discount right when a product is released instead of popping up a month or two later. It would also be easier to move had the difference in price been less than $200. That's a chunk of change. I mean, what did they expect? Why not offer the discount at the beginning, maybe to just the people signed up for the newsletter, and then raise the price afterward?

And, truth be told, I'm in the same economic boat as WebAssist. I'm an independent freelancer struggling to get by in a down market. So it goes both ways. I'm one of those "Americans that can't afford health insurance," whereas I bet that's not an issue for the folks at WebAssist. I guess that's why I've chosen to part of this dialogue. That money was a significant loss for me, making it very hard to move on.

The subscription thing doesn't bother me at all either. I'd much rather own than rent the tools I use to make a living. But hopefully that option will attract a whole other group of people for WebAssist. Options are always a good thing.

[Office Guy-172461]

Please don't take my posts personally. I'm not really familiar with your situation.

Most companies don't have the luxury of being able to base their prices on the ability of individuals to pay. That would really create a firestorm. :)

Best to just evaluate the deal before you at the time you need the item.

I wouldn't take what Ray said to mean they are struggling. Money management is a critical part of any successful company. As far as the web site goes, that's what they do! You have to keep things fresh when you're selling web technology.

BTW I think the new site is great. It is so much easier to find what you need compared to a few years ago. I remember that most of the posts back then started with, "Does anyone remember where the tech note on ..." :)

[bundle]

I just read how Snow Leopard's sales have been more than double those of Leopard. Since it's only $29, people are eager to upgrade. At a lower price they have ended up selling five million copies of Snow Leopard compared to two million for Leopard at its release. Here's a quote pertinent to the point that lower prices can yield higher profits:

“With pricing reduced by more than $100 for both the single-user and five-user pack versus Leopard pricing, Apple has clearly demonstrated that aggressive pricing policies in this economic environment generate an outstanding consumer response,” said Baker.

Taken from: http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_090917.html

I never expected WebAssist to price a product based on my income. I was just surprised that I was rejected for an discount when a full month hadn't even gone by. It's not like there was a 6 month gap. It's typical for many good businesses to offer a refund within a month. I can understand fixing a date for promotional discount to end, after which is can't be honored, but what about buying before? That's just an eager customer not a late comer. Oh well.

The redesign is fine. I get it. They wanted to look 2.0. I just never had any problems with the original design. Any time I wanted to find something I used the "Search" field. That has nothing to do with design. Just my opinion though. I certainly know as a Designer that we often have to design for the lowest common denominator. I had a client once whose idea of a test group was to show the design comps to his barely alive Grandmother to see if she had problems finding things. Why on earth would you want your target to be a generation that was completely without computers and barely knows how to turn one on?

[Office Guy-172461]

From what I've heard, Snow Leopard is more of a service pack with some cosmetic changes than an upgrade, thus the "low price" (Windows service packs are free).

If your join date of Dec. 2007 is when you started using the site, you probably never saw the site I was referring to. I don't think its a "2.0" thing, it's about making it easier for customers and potential customer find what they are looking for.

I know how to use search, but that assumes that the user knows a document exists and what it's called. Why make it harder than necessary?

After 30 years of designing and supporting networks, I hardly consider myself the "lowest common denominator." It's an efficient design no mater what you want to call it.

[bundle]

Please tell me you're not in your 80's. If you are, no offense. This Grandma I referred to was. She could hardly see or hear. Seriously. She was completely computer illiterate. I'm sure you're not. I've been designing for 20 years so I'm not too far behind you. The time whips by so quickly.

The thing with Snow Leopard is that it's just a partial upgrade, hence the name remaining in the Leopard family. It doesn't offer lots of new bells and whistles. It just operates much faster. Regardless, it's not about what it does, it about the five million dollars generated in $29 increments within three weeks.

Mac updates are free too. This is the first time this sort of this has been offered. I guess the upgrade is considered significant enough to warrant a payment, yet not enough to be called some other cat.

And I'm all for the WebAssist site being cleaner and easier to navigate. That's great. I just thought they were struggling to stay in business.

[Office Guy-172461]

Some of us started young - about the same era as Bill Gates. Went to hear him speak pre-Microsoft. Apple was trying to get attention by giving out tickets to their "hospitality suite" party. When I looked at the location, instead of a room number it said Disneyland. They even knew how to market way back then. The entire park filled with nothing but computer people was quite a site.

[SOJO web]

Actually, Snow Leopard is slightly more than just a partial upgrade or service pack... yes, I get that the overall functionality appears the same but there is quite a difference now that Apple has brought ALL of their applications to 64 bit... so Apple Mail (with included Exchange support - something Microsoft charges quite bit extra to get even on the Windows os), Safari, Core Imaging, Garage Band, and on and on are all 64 bit. Well worth the $29.

And as far as pertains to this thread, the good news is that it looks like all Adobe apps for the Mac in CS5 will get 64 Bit Cocoa makeover and drop the antiquated Carbon. I can say that Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and Photoshop have all picked up noticeable speed and stability even as 32 bit apps on Snow Leopard - can't wait for CS5 with 64 bit support.

Cheers,

Brian

[Lon Winters]

Just out of curiosity, why did you pay for a complete redesign of your website if money is so tight? I never saw anything wrong with the original version. Redesign is a luxury not a necessity. Client satisfaction is much more profitable.

A luxury? Hmmm, that doesn't bode well for me then, I'm getting ready to pitch a re-design of a site to a client whose site is 4 years old, that we did!

So I disagree. In the marketing world, it's a necessity to keep up with current looks and technology. Fresh.

[Ray Borduin]

Money is only as tight as we make it by putting the money we make right back into the community. If more money came in, we would still choose to spend it improving our products and the services we offer to you.

My point is that your investment is well spent and returned to you as a community member. We are by no means struggling to keep our doors open, we are struggling to wisely invest the money you invest in us to make sure you are successful not just now, but in the future as well.

[Ozdachs]

Really!

I'm impressed that this post is up and that Webassist folks have participated in it.

Yeah, I disagree with some of the Webassist decisions. (For some reason, I seem to disagree with those decisions that may cost me money... hmmm!). But, with software tools you buy the company and its attitude, and Webassist looks good in this back-and-forth.

[codamedia]

Our policy is to upgrade customers to newly released versions if they have purchased an older version within 30 days of the new version coming out. We do this automatically in the download center so that you don't need to call in to take advantage of this.

We will continue to come out with new versions of our products; in fact, we are trying to get on a quicker cycle for this. Like a lot of software companies though, it is not our policy to publicize release dates for our product line. While some software companies leak this type of information, release dates are often estimated, or move entirely, and moving a release date can be every bit as unpopular as not offering it in the first place.

As SOJO mentions above, our subscription program is a great alternative if you do not want to pay upgrade costs after the 30-day mark.

I just found this thread, going back to Sept 9th 2009. I upgraded to CSS Sculpture 2 on July 15th (give or take a day or two) so I missed out on the free upgrade by 2 - 3 weeks! I hardly call this fair.

I understand you don't want to publish release dates - but 30 days is not enough to be taking people out of two separate upgrade charges. If I upgrade to CSS 3 I will have bought the program TWICE!

I understand fully that you are being innovative and pushing forward, but in all fairness, version two should have been a dot update. It had no real new innovations other than automating the Faux Columns and adding a couple templates. Version three is substantial and worthy of a full upgrade.

When I ordered my version 2 the people at WebAssist KNEW they were going to strike again, in less than two months. I agree with the original poster - NOT FAIR!

Hey - I know the rules, so it is was it is, but I still think 30 days is simply too short.