Licensing - Patches - eCart [Archive]

rhellewell288999

03-23-2009, 10:43 AM

Questions as I evaluate this solution

1) How is Powerstore licensed? Buy one copy, make multiple 'stores' on multiple web sites?

2) Update/patch policy?

3) The admin screens in the test site don't show the setup parameters for payment processors, etc. No info (that I found yet) on PCI compliance (are credit card numbers stored locally, fer instance). Installation docs might be helpful as I evaluate this solution.

Thanks..Rick...

Ray Borduin

03-23-2009, 03:15 PM

The Powerstore is licenced per store. You cannot make multiple stores on multiple web sites. If you want to do that you can design a store using our extensions.

The store is sold as-is. Updates and patches may or may not be made available at any time. We intend to fix any obvious bugs and errors free of charge and they should be timely since it is all php and html.

Credit cards are not stored locally in this example.

Tom M

03-24-2009, 08:10 AM

If this is indeed the policy, then it needs to be explicitly noted in the product description, because it runs completely and directly counter to your other solution packs which state that they include:

Developers License

* WebAssist solutions include a developer’s license so you can use our products to develop as many websites as you desire; all for one low cost.

Ray Borduin

03-24-2009, 08:30 AM

Because these are pre-built solutions, we of course can't allow someone to simply buy it once and start selling and distributing it as their own immediately after.

You can create add ons and derivitive works, but since it is essentially different in that it requires no work or added intellectual input by the end user, it must have different license terms.

The solutions are designed for people to use on their web sites, they are not intended for web shops to use and resell at their convenience. That would undercut our ability to make them in the first place since we would have to compete with anyone who purchased it who could sell it for any price without a license preventing that. If you want to resell them, you would have to buy a copy per domain you end up pushing live.

Tom M

03-24-2009, 08:46 AM

...
The solutions are designed for people to use on their web sites, they are not intended for web shops to use and resell at their convenience. That would undercut our ability to make them in the first place since we would have to compete with anyone who purchased it who could sell it for any price without a license preventing that. If you want to resell them, you would have to buy a copy per domain you end up pushing live.

If that is your new policy, then it is your business to run as you see fit. However, it is completely and totally at odds with what is stated in the description of your other solutions - that in the words on your site, "WebAssist solutions include include a developer’s license so you can use our products to develop as many websites as you desire; all for one low cost."

Here are the URLs:
http://www.webassist.com/solutions/user-registration/
http://www.webassist.com/solutions/contact-form/

In both cases look at the "Features" Tab under "Why Webassist Solutions?"

If this Powerstore solution is different, then you need to say so up front.

mick106153

03-24-2009, 08:25 PM

I am not usually an early adopter, but I jumped on this the moment you announced. Why?
I already own most everything you sell.
I've been struggling, because the learning curve is pretty steep, to build an ecommerce site for a few parties that are getting desperate.
This product sounded like a good "template" off of which i could expand as my skill level increased and i could have it up in no time.
I am a careful and thorough reader and nowhere in any of the documentation surrounding this product was there even an inference that it was one-time-use - until I read it here.
It is obviously not a "complete" solution in that it needs to be tweaked and modified and expanded upon to achieve the desired result.
Don't get me wrong. It is a fine product and well thought out but for me it is a template and not a "solution".
I don't know if there can be a resolution that will make everyone happy but I imagine that some sort of sliding scale based on units placed might do the trick, or unlimited use for those not so advised otherwise.
Please assure me that I can, in fact, use all the other tools you provide to expand this product to my liking, That there isn't some sort of inner nanny preventing me from going too far.

Mick

Ray Borduin

03-25-2009, 10:56 AM

It is completely customizable in our tools. We did recently discover a problem when editing the menus, but we are working on resolving that issue and providing an update shortly.

Tom M

03-25-2009, 11:04 AM

Holy cow, I just checked and the licensing policy on all solution packs has changed overnight.

They no longer include the "Developer's License" statement under "Features->Why WebAssist Solutions", instead, the FAQ's for the Contact Form and User Registration solutions packs indicates the following:

How is this solution licensed (i.e. how many [forms,registration systems] can I set up)?

When you purchase the Contact Form Solution Pack, you receive a license to use this solution to develop and deploy one website for one client. You must purchase an additional license for each website you want to create with the Contact Form Solution Pack.

muddysmurf

03-25-2009, 02:54 PM

This REALLY makes me angry! I'm contemplating on not ordering EVER again. How can you all of the sudden change the licensing overnight, but before not even make a mention of how many times you can use it. This is VERY dirty of WebAssist, and deserves an answer, ASAP!

There are plenty more places out there to get extensions. I thought everything you guys made was alright. Decided to spread the word around to my other web designer friends. But seriously, you guys have done MANY customers wrong and now I get to retract my statements to my friends. Ugh I cannot believe this.

mick106153

03-25-2009, 03:49 PM

This is very bad news.
Since I have already placed several contact forms using "ContactFormSolutionPack" and have pre-sold several "UserRegistrationSolutionPacks" I guess I must be an outlaw.

Really, in all seriousness. Where do you get off changing policy like this After The Fact!
I thought only Dick Cheney and Karl Rove were that entitled.
It's your business, dig a deeper hole if you wish. If you want to change policy to something you feel is more equitable to you, go right ahead. But you must let us – you remember us, the ones who pay your bills? – you must let us know Before you make the change. Making this change in policy apply to existing product is at the very least unethical. The more faithful might call it immoral. I think it approaches illegal.

Your scofflaw in the making
Mick

muddysmurf

03-25-2009, 05:09 PM

Mick, I was wondering the same thing. I'm still outraged. I have placed this on SEVERAL sites after I bought it. NOWHERE did it say something about I could only use it on one site...until you guys changed it. You have hit the nail on the head, my friend! Unethical, immoral, whatever you want to call it. It's still not fair or even right. Call me an outlaw too, I guess. heh.

What am I going to tell my clients? That they owe me another 30 bucks or more because the company that I bought an extension to use for my freelance business made a mistake, and immorally changed the licensing to something after the fact? Not cool. Oh wait, my bad, it's a "solution" not an extension. There's a big difference there. Other than it's already made, I still spent my hard earned money on the thing.

I honestly don't know what to think. I do have a feeling that once more people start to read this thread, they will get heated also. I mean come on, if you do this on one solution, are you going to start doing that on the actual extensions.

I have seriously lost respect for you guys after this. It really makes me reconsider every penny I have spent on your software. This isn't a very smart way to do business.

Stan

03-25-2009, 06:55 PM

I just can't resist. Fist a disclaimer. I am in no way affiliated or associated with WebAssist. This may be an area or product whose commercial terms were not well thought out. And the way it was recified may or may not be proper. But at the end of the day, what Ray is saying is completely right. What? you want them to build their own competition? At the going price this is a bargain. How many hours do you think it would save you for just one website. And here's the rest of the story. Having this working example under your belt and moving forward you should be able to build your own "templates" that you can use for the same purpose. No doubt even improving on them. Personally, my buy decision is "how much time will this save me THIS project." If it's more than the purchase price and I think the authors are capable of making a good product, I buy. End of story.

Ray Borduin

03-26-2009, 07:13 AM

As Stan points out, we did make some mistakes in our original license agreements and our legal representation pointed out the issues we needed to correct in order to protect our ability to continue to create and sell solutions... a.k.a. the license had to be modified. Changing a license and limiting rights is always a sticky subject and is not done lightheartedly, but in this case it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why it had to be done.

We are not actively persuing users that have launched on more than one domain. This provision is in place to prevent users from hosting and reselling the site in its entirety and becoming competition for our own sales. The reality is we would only become aware of a problem if you were advertising and selling a direct copy of the solution.

If you want to launch solutions like this on multiple web sites for your clients, then you would need to either purchase a license or purchase the super suite and recreate the functionality... The solution might still be a good investment as a working example, at which point it would be very difficult to differentiate between the solution we sell and one that you could create by mimicing the workflow demonstrated in the solution using our tools.

mick106153

03-26-2009, 09:06 AM

Ray if you had couched your intentions the way you just did I believe there would have been no problem. Going forward at least.
Though I still am deeply troubled about your willingness to make this change retroactively. That is unfair.
I never intended, nor do I think most users here would have used this solution pack as the end product. I saw it as a template, a guide, a jumping off point to greater things. It is after all what we've been asking for for some time, a more thorough "dissertation" on how it all goes together.
I expect that I will use the solution pack as a model more than once incorporating more tweaks each time. At some point there will be no trace.
Nough said.

Mick

PS Ray, if you could expand on what you said here:
"The solution might still be a good investment as a working example, at which point it would be very difficult to differentiate between the solution we sell and one that you could create by mimicing the workflow demonstrated in the solution using our tools. "

we lesser souls would appreciate the input. How-to's, Videos. the usual fare.

Now nough said

Mick

tlpirc372764

03-29-2009, 02:34 AM

boy this has me a bit scared, I guess I need to go through each piece of software I want to buy in order to see what the licensing terms are. I was going to go with the developer's suite, already have menu writer, sculptor, site assist, but I tell you, one way to get clients is to make sure, especially in this economy, that it doesn't hit their bottom line too hard. I can't spend a week developing a site for much less than what I am doing it for now, (I've got to put food on the table.)and I can't charge the same price as larger firms, because I am already saving my clients a bundle with all the product/commercial photography and design work...this of course is what gives me the edge because though I am not a master coder I am one heck of an artist and I thought webassist was finally the company which was going to allow me to give my clients a little more than just a front end "wow" factor.

does anyone know offhand which products are per use licensing? don't mean to be lazy, it's just late that's all to be clicking one by one through the FAQs.

EDIT: Couldn't help it, was probably already mentioned in the thread, but it appears the solution packs are the only ones affected, correct me if I am wrong.

I can understand webassist's position, being that those packs are "Quick pre-built solutions", but on the other hand I can also understand someone's dismay if they had used the contact form solution pack with multiple clients prior to the newly included statement on licensing.

Ray Borduin

03-30-2009, 09:59 AM

mick106153

03-30-2009, 11:21 AM

All extensions are developer licenses... so everything in the developer suite is a developer license. The only things that are per-domain license are the solutions:

Contact form Solution
User Registration Solution
PowerStore Solution

There are only two versions of the license... one for extensions and one for finished web site solutions.

Now that your position is clear and – I think I can speak for everyone here – we all agree that your position is logical and not meant to be a hardship to your users. You do have to earn a living.
You still haven't laid to rest the original conundrum for those of us who took it on faith that this had not been the policy because you (collectively) stated otherwise on your website.
We don't wish to cheat you out of what you deserve and will temper our future purchases with the thought of your current policy in mind but we do need to know how to proceed with our existing product.
I know I and some others feel just a little bit taken aback that we will now be outlaws if we continue to use these products in the way we were led to believe that we could.

Mick

muddysmurf

03-30-2009, 02:38 PM

I agree. I've got 3 + websites with this on it with the understanding that it was like any other thing because nothing was stated about it.

Ray Borduin

03-30-2009, 03:39 PM

David Stringer

04-02-2009, 08:01 AM

If you want to comply with the license terms you would need to purchase three licenses or make enough updates so that the end result is not distinguishable as a copy. We apologize for the mistakes we made in not making this clear sooner, but we cannot offer an unlimited license of a solution for obvious reasons and the clear ramifications that could result.

I have read all the above posts on this subject and I too believed that we could develop more than one site with this solution.

It also crossed my mind that this was too good to be true!

I have for a long time used a shopping basket product (Developer's licence) from England which originally cost me £1500 plus VAT for the original programme and £300 per year since to keep up to date. This entitles me to develop as many stores as I wish, but the new site owner has to purchase the software from the company at a cost of £400 plus VAT in order to run his store.

So, for the price, and the ease of use, Web Assists Power Store has to be a bargain for developers to use and instigate quite quickly. Plus it has the added advantage of keeping the database on the web and easily updated too.

My only grumble is one reflected above, in that there is no easy facility to integrate a choice of sizes or colours.

I also own just about all the extensions offered by Web Assist, including Super Suite, so I just hope that they keep making such good pieces of software.

Tom M

04-02-2009, 08:46 AM

...It also crossed my mind that this was too good to be true! ...

I never viewed it as too good to be true, just as a good value.

I'm afraid I still don't see what the issue was with the original "developers license" issue (other than lawyer paranoia or a lawyer not understanding how to craft a software license). I and (it seems) everyone else who read the "developers license" seemed to understand it. That is, you can use the solution pack as a basis for a system to deploy on a website you were developing for someone. You could not resell it in any other form.

In this sense, that original developers license is indistinguishable from the current license. It's just that now the scope has been decreased to "you can only deploy it on one website you are developing, but you can not resell it in any other form". For me, that license does not make the solution pack a good value any more - but that is just me.

I think the original developers license was reasonable because it is indeed possible to put together your own "solution pack" or "template" using the excellent WebAssist software. The solution pack was WebAssist doing that with their deep in-house experience and expertise in their tools, packaging it in a distributable form and thus saving me a lot of time. That is what I was willing to pay for.

TM

Ray Borduin

04-02-2009, 11:44 AM

We are looking into expanding our license to either offer a developer license at additional cost, or change the license such that users that own the products that were used to create the solution would get a developer license or users of the super suite.

If you own our software you could in fact create the exact solution we provide... after all that is what we did. So already the enforcability of the license for owners of the extensions could be called into question because technically there would be no difference.

The reality is that these terms are there to protect us and not necessarily to be used to go after you or any of our other customers. Since we just started selling solutions it was pointed out that our current license didn't offer enough protection, so we moved to the other extreme. As we progress and learn we will work to give the customer what you want while giving us the protection that we need. We are still refining the way we will sell and offer solutions and we will keep working on getting it right for both of us.

paulshotan103760

04-06-2009, 03:29 PM

The change of licensing can only be applied to new purchases. When people buy a product they enter into a contract defined AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. Contracts cannot be altered retrospectively. It may not be to people's liking that conditions of use are now different but the company is completely free to alter it's terms at any time it chooses. Clearly to avoid confusion or misrepresentation the facts must be stated clearly.

I have no worries about this change. I bought my items under clear conditions of use at the time ... it means I won't buy any future solutions but that's my prerogative. It's a retro move as far as I can see and WA have seemingly thrown away the great buying incentive they held previously. hey ho, that's the way it goes ... sadly? Another one bites the dust!!!!